101 Responses to “More on Google Profits and Pacific Webworks”

1. Strangely on February 18th, 2010 at 10:18 am

   Thanks @Not Kevin This looks (because the Florida AG says that it’s a civil case) that this is some sort of class action to me. See what happens then…. I see that two of the companies listed are from Clearwater, Florida. I picked up some shack address there back in August last year, here: http://strangelyperfect.tv/5612/mybookface-google-utah-and-nevis-scamboys-united/ I wonder if they’re related? The Florida AG has two different addresses for these “businesses” here: http://www.myfloridalegal.com/lit_ec.nsf/investigations/468B2CA5B9D8F022852576500063C5D3 and here: http://www.myfloridalegal.com/lit_ec.nsf/investigations/87E6CBBEB10F58A18525768600755159 But for me, the similarities in online name and physical locations are too close to ignore, after all the Google Bollox we’ve had to endure. There’s an interesting wodge of info on the Clearwater folks by NilsC here: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/AdSense/thread?tid=55894d4f11234462&hl=en The high charges and shoddy business practices are to be noted! Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

2. Strangely on February 18th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

   More from Florida… http://www.miamiherald.com/business/nation/story/1484959.html The Miami Herald quotes the following from the FTC that on top of the sinful seven @not Kevin mentions above: The Justice Department has pursued criminal action in 44 additional cases and state attorneys general are pursuing 18 more, FTC officials said. It’s a start, then. Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

   • Not Kevin on February 19th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

     Good to hear some tough talk from the FTC: ““Federal and state law enforcement officials will not tolerate those who take advantage of consumers in times of economic misfortune,” Vladeck said. “If you falsely advertise that you will connect people with jobs or with opportunities for them to make money working from home, we will shut you down. We will give your assets to the people you scammed, and, when it’s appropriate, we’ll refer you to criminal authorities for prosecution.”” From Paul’s blog at: http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2010/02/18/ftc-cracks-down-on-con-artists-who-target-jobless-americans/ As you say, it’s a start. Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

3. Not Kevin on February 19th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

   Interesting that 7 of the 8 are in Florida whereas Pacific Webworks is the odd one out being in Utah. Perhaps the Florida AG got tired of the Utah AG doing nothing??! (Apart from taking political donations from the scammers that is) The Florida AG is also investigating these people: RNR Media, LLC., a/k/a “Cleanwhites”, Rauscher Bekke, LLC., Green Bracket, LLC., Jesse Stein, Individually and Paul Nute, Individually. Well Clean Whites is yet another teeth whitening scam – what is with people named Jesse and teeth whitener scams?? http://www.myfloridalegal.com/lit_ec.nsf/investigations/D744A92BBDA533408525766900688EA7 Note how the Just Think Media stable of scams by their own admission includes /included all the usual suspects: AcaiBurn (Acai) PureCleanse ResV (Resveratrol) Wu-Yi Google Grants Credit Report America Fraud Protection ID Theft Comprehensive Weight Loss Insider Secrets Dazzle White (teeth whitener) PureLiftCream List taken from the comment post by Mark A. of JustThink Media at: http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/just-think-media–dazzlewhite-c232583.html Well here is another crowd of swamp dwellers for the Florida Attorney General to look into: XM Brands Inc. Address: 3389 Sheridan St., Suite# 217 Hollywood , Florida USA 33021 Telephone Number: (800) 440-4397 http://www.seflorida.bbb.org/Business-Report/XM-Brands-Inc-92013738 As can be seen here they too were running a ‘Google Kit’ scam: http://sfholidays.blogspot.com/2009/11/scam-alert-xm-brands-refused-to-give-me.html Google XM Brands or XM Brands Scam: http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=xm+brands+scam&meta=&aq=4&oq=xm+brands and you will find a flood of complaints about their various ‘products’ as well as their website which shows that they too are flogging all the usual suspects: Acai, Colon Cleanse, Teeth Whitener, Resveratrol and Work From home garbage: http://www.xmbrands.com/products.html Like or Dislike: 1  0 Reply

   • Strangely on February 22nd, 2010 at 1:08 pm

     @Not Kevin That FTC release that Paul quotes (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/02/bottomdollar.shtm) shows the continuing and expanding extent to which the thieving conmen will go, doesn’t it? Fishing around, I came across this TV News investigation video from New Zealand from last August… http://tvnz.co.nz/fair-go/whiter-than-white-2889431/video/ It’s quite a good “dummies” guide to how Jesse works. Unfortunately, as we know, he’s still at it in his $40m Canadian house…. Here are a few links FROM THIS MONTH detailing how people have been thieved by Mr Willms and his ilk. http://boards.answers.findlaw.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=89636.4&nav=messages&webtag=fl-consumer_law http://www.complain-about-them.com/claims/196/activepro_866_417 http://tucsoncitizen.com/bbbconsumeralert/2010/02/19/teeth-whitening-products-sold-online-wipe-smile-off-consumers%E2%80%99-faces/ Now while not necessarily being Willms, the same methods are continuing with the same problems of tracking, stopping and catching the perpetrators from our law enforcers. Even when we know who they are, quite often they (like Jesse Wills for instance), continue to act with impunity. For instance, this posting starts back during last summer and still has recent complaints about Jesse! http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/just-think-media–dazzlewhite-c232583.html?sort=datea&page=3 It’d be really nice if good ol’ Jesse ended up in Boot Hill Cemetery in Tombstone after the run-down by the Tucson Citizen, 100km away. That what happened to the bad guys in the old days…. Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

4. What? No Google! Use Robert Allen Instead! | Strangely Perfect on February 24th, 2010 at 11:44 am

   [...] as many scribes (e.g. Paul Schlegel) pointed out (e.g. here), it would, and it has all [...] Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

5. Drill Down Through bsadn.pantherssl.com | Strangely Perfect on February 24th, 2010 at 11:58 am

   [...] Comments are now closed on this posting as Google Treasure Chest is dead. However, the problem has not gone away – the menace continues. For further information, all chat on this and subsequent scams is now here: Google Revolution, Different Name, Same Scam! and here: More on Google Profits and Pacific Webworks/ [...] Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

6. Strangely on February 25th, 2010 at 11:40 am

   Neat start-up information on Pacific WebWorks. From this website which hosts a heap of related official documents, we have: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/21711204/Public-Offering-Registration—PACIFIC-WEBWORKS-INC—5-30-2000 QUOTE (from 2000): As filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on May 30, 2000 We have a limited operating history and we cannot be certain of future progress or profitability. We were incorporated in 1987, but did not operate as a business until 1997. Starting in 1999, we began to market our software products through resellers. We may encounter financial, managerial, technological or other difficulties as a result of our lack of operating history… …We have consistently incurred losses since our formation. As of March 31, 2000 our accumulated losses totaled $3,330,495. We have financed ourselves through loans and sales of our securities… …Currently, in our estimation, few major competitors offer products comparable to the Visual WebTools TM product family. We believe that “Yahoo! Store” is our most significant competitor, with its brand name recognition and significantly greater financial, technical, marketing, and managerial resources. Yahoo! Store has significantly higher sales and customers than we do and has entered into a significantly higher number of license agreements with third parties than we have. Our success in our target market will depend upon our ability to build name brand recognition and to provide cost-effective products and services to our customers… …Our success is highly dependent on our ability to develop new and enhanced products that meet changing customer requirements…. …At present, our four principal products, Visual WebTools TM, ClipOn Commerce, IntelliPay, and Placeto Vacation are available… …We depend on our management, who may leave us at any time. We depend upon the efforts and abilities of our officers, directors, and certain key employees, including the officers and directors listed on pages 45 under the heading “Directors and Executive Officers.” Should we lose the services of one or more of these persons, their loss could have a material adverse effect on our operations… …Competition for employees in the electronic commerce industry is intense, and there can be no assurance that we will be able to attract and retain enough qualified employees…. …We depend upon our proprietary rights, none of which can be completely safeguarded against infringement…. …We are not aware of any third party intellectual property rights which would prevent us from marketing and developing Visual WebTools TM, although such rights may exist. If we were to inadvertently infringe upon the intellectual property of another party, we could be forced to seek a license to those intellectual property rights, alter the products or processes so they no longer infringe upon those rights, or engage in litigation. If we were required to attempt to obtain a license to another party’s proprietary rights, our efforts would be expensive… We will need additional capital and may be unable to raise it. We believe, based on our current expenditure rate, that we will need $ 1.5 million additional financing by the summer of 2000. …We rely upon revenues from resellers, license agreements, and product sales. We may not be able to obtain additional funds on acceptable terms…. …Our products are complex and may be subject to error complaints from our customers. Visual WebTools TM is complex and may contain errors, defects, and “bugs.” We have detected errors, defects, and bugs in the past and have corrected them as quickly as possible…. …As of this date we have not experienced any material adverse effect by reason of an error, defect, or bug… …Our directors and officers are able to exercise significant influence over matters requiring stockholder approval. Currently, our directors and executive officers and their affiliates collectively own approximately 29.6% of our outstanding shares. This concentration of ownership may have the effect of delaying or preventing a change in control. Pursuant to Nevada corporate statutes, the holders of a majority of our common stock may authorize or take corporate action without notice to or the consent of the stockholders… …Investors may have difficulty selling our shares. There has not been a large public market for our equity securities and our common stock has traded on the over-the-counter market only since January of 1999… …We have not paid dividends. We have never paid a dividend on our common stock. We intend to retain future earnings to finance our growth and development and do not plan to pay cash dividends in the foreseeable future…. …We have a new product in a developing market which may not work properly…. …If Visual WebTools TM does not achieve market acceptance, we could suffer material adverse effects. Our markets are highly dependent on the use of the Internet. A number of critical issues concerning the commercial use of the Internet, including security, reliability, capacity, taxation, costs, ease of use, access, quality of service, and acceptance of advertising, remain unresolved and may retard the growth of the Internet for commercial applications…. …We expect to derive revenues from user licenses and license renewals and to increase the brand recognition of Visual WebTools TM among users through these types of relationships. In the event that a substantial number of our customers were to decline to renew their contracts for any reason, we could experience a substantial drop in revenues… …As of March 31, 2000, twenty-two of our customers’ licenses have been up for renewal. Nine of our customers have already renewed their licenses. All of our current contracts expire following the original one year term…. …We may be subject to increased regulations and may be exposed to liability for information retrieved from the Internet. Other than the laws and regulations applicable to businesses generally, we are aware of few laws and regulations which expressly apply to access and commerce on the Internet…. As you’ll see, I’ve been selective in my snippets, but there, from the pen of Larsen & Bell, is their business plan. The last paragraph I’ve highlighted as they state categorically that they don’t know of any laws that will affect their operation. Here they state in their business plan that deceptive practices and the common law of the land from biblical times do not apply to themselves!!!! Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

7. Strangely on March 3rd, 2010 at 5:40 pm

   Could this be the connection between the USA and County Durham? !! :D BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/8544045.stm Durham Police: http://www.durham.police.uk/press/news.php?id=1389 The police link is now down, but the text from Google’s cache reads as: Woman arrested in America 1st March, 2010 A POLICE investigation launched 10 years ago has led to the arrest of a suspect in America. The long arm of the law finally caught up with the suspect, a 44-year-old woman from Spennymoor in Co Durham, when she was arrested in Texas. Today the woman, who isn’t being identified at this stage, arrived back from America with two detectives who flew out to Dallas to bring her back. One of the detectives was Robbie Roddis, who was part of the team of detectives who originally started the investigation in Spennymoor in 2000. The investigation was launched after allegations that a woman had been fiddling money from the Spennymoor firm where she was employed as an accounts clerk. It was claimed £300,000 was missing. The woman under suspicion at the time suddenly disappeared and it was discovered she had been living in different parts of the USA and had married a Texan. The hunt led to the High Court in London in August last year where a judge granted an extradition warrant. The woman was located at an address in a small town close to San Antonio and was arrested in January by the local deputy marshall and has remained in custody since then. Tomorrow the woman will appear before South Durham magistrates at Newton Aycliffe charged with 253 offences of forgery and deception going back over a two and a half year period. Texas is the state that first collared Jonathon Eborn in April last year. Spennymoor is just down the road from Consett etc. View Larger Map Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

8. Not Kevin on March 3rd, 2010 at 5:57 pm

   Interesting. A post made today on this website also points out the connections between the Google Kit, Acai, Teeth scams etc and County Durham: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2071617&page=2 Not sure all his/her facts/allegations are correct though (Brock Felt, BBB) but a search for the address in the post + the word scam threw up a lot of porn sites: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=trD&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=18+Millfield+Court%2C+DH8+8TN+scam&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq= and this: lancashireecho.com Lancashire Echo – Online News You Can Trust (yeah right!!) where the address is buried in the (very small!) small print below all the garbage about free Govt grants for UK citizens. Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

   • Strangely on March 3rd, 2010 at 9:03 pm

     @Not Kevin Disappointingly this all seems to be coming around again…. Checking the address for the ‘company’ behind the ‘Lancashire Echo’ using my website (strangelyperfect.tv) only, fed-pack.com c/o caddish rondeaux enterprises ltd, 18 millfield court, blackhill, consett, county durham, dh8 8tn …I see several similar DH8 references. These are them: LB Envision Net Worldwide Ltd. DH8 0LH DH8 7QD LB Eridanus Entertainment Limited DH8 7NG DH8 0RX DH8 0EP Also LB LFP Internet Ltd used DH7 0LZ as well!! Check out the new name,Caddish Rondeaux Enterprises Ltd… What’s it mean? Caddish is obviously behaviour pertaining to a cad, the old English term for a complete and utter twat. This part is highly accurate! Rondeaux is French for a Roundel, a heraldic mark most famous as the emblem of the RAF. See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundel Also notice that the businesses at Millfield Court variously use No 18 AND No 28!! It all shows that either half of County Durham is loaded up with scam companies, or else most of it is just pure fiction…? Just as the variously named LB etc is now morphing to Caddish whatever. Brock Felt: You spotted him way back in September 2009 here: http://strangelyperfect.tv/4308/google-revolution-different-name-same-scam/#comment-1889 In the same comment you pulled out the DH8 7OS postcode which was used by a heap of ‘businesses’ as well as the cross reference to Steve Comer in UTAH. Finally you pulled in ol’ Jesse Willms who was using the same addresses! That was a hell of a comment back then. And now we’re back to square one again! Even the porn is still tied into the same addresses and will probably pop up in a few Essex garages as well.. One thing about the ECHO bit. This leads me to think that there’s at least one operation in County Durham, no matter how many addresses and postcodes pop up. The reason is that the local paper in Sunderland and that part of County Durham is called “The Northern Echo” – http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ Echo isn’t used very often in newspaper names, so it shows a degree of local knowledge, IMHO. Doing a quick search on fed-pack.com shows an earliest scam reference to unauthorised charges from about June 2009. The most recent are now and have ramped up in frequency since New Year. try: http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/fed-packcom-c212089.html http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/grants–fed-packcom-c296613.html http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=885276 http://www.scamfound.com/f13/grants-fed-pack-com-unorthorized-charges-credit-card-86473.html Finally, try this from the local history site for Consett!!! http://www.consett-history.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=11933&sid=637648ed568f9309cfd1890d690d4801 .-= Strangely´s last blog ..The Hell of Incessant Suffering and the Land of Tranquil Light =-. Like or Dislike: 2  0 Reply

9. Not Kevin on March 3rd, 2010 at 10:40 pm

   So the circle of scams begins all over again?? How depressing! Can we expect ‘Google Kits’ to make a re-appearance in a few months, followed by Acai and teeth whitening mark 2 (maybe Acai which whitens your teeth or something who knows!?) Caddish indeed. Fed-pack is yet another US site with a County Durham address. Note the 1 day (yes 1 day) trial period before they rob you: fed-pack.com/static/terms The grantsdot.com/uk/ website even has a ‘testimonial’ from Jon P., London who got a check – yes a check not a cheque, perhaps he is confused as to which country he is in. Or more likely he doesn’t even exist. Caddish Rondeaux Enterprises Ltd does however exist – at least according to Companies House. They even filed a company return just last week: http://www.ukdata.com/creditreports/viewCompanyDetails.do?companyId=06818199&only-match=1 http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&q=%22Caddish+Rondeaux%22&meta=&aq=f&oq=%22Caddish+Rondeaux%22&fp=33a9a577caa4e7cb Some recent victims: http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/caddish-rondeaux-enterprises-c308805.html From your scam.com link above it seems Fed Pack / Caddish et al is just another re-incarnation of an old grants scam called Grants 360 (Grants360). Here we can see another scammy affiliate network encouraging their affiliates to promote this crap: http://twitter.com/ewanetwork/status/9838133788 Their whole Twitter feed indeed is an A to Z of scams – Acai, teeth, Home income etc, it’s all there: http://twitter.com/ewanetwork Seems this ‘dude’ called Ryan Eagle is the man boy behind EWA: http://www.nickycakes.com/ryan-eagle-super-affiliate-e-thug-yo/ Like or Dislike: 2  0 Reply

   • Strangely on March 3rd, 2010 at 10:50 pm

     @Not Kevin Ryan Eagle and his family look sooo nice. It’s hard to imagine them all being involved in “premier adult” websites, and that Ryan was (is) a reformed drugs and liquor addict? I can well believe that his faith in god is immense though… See ryaneagle.com/family.php and http://www.linkedin.com/in/ryaneagle (look for Fathom Adult Technologies) .-= Strangely´s last blog ..The Hell of Incessant Suffering and the Land of Tranquil Light =-. Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

10. Not Kevin on March 4th, 2010 at 2:40 am

    Here is Ryan Eagle aka EWA pushing the scammy grant offer (Grants 360 aka Fed Pack aka Radish Caddish Rondeaux or whatever they are calling themselves this week) yet again : “Scale your existing grant campaigns into Canada and the United Kingdom with Grants 360! The UK is a huge unsaturated market waiting for you!” http://twitter.com/ewanetwork/status/9948263036 And here is another affiliate network (CONvert2media) looking to exploit the ‘UK market’. “I have 2 Private Teeth Whitening – UK campaigns looking for some traffic.” http://twitter.com/convert2media/status/9686363430 Like or Dislike: 1  0 Reply

    • Strangely on March 4th, 2010 at 7:30 am

      @Not Kevin Do you know how long tweets float round in the Twitter ecosystem? This is a serious question as I don’t know. In other words, is there a tweet archive or do the tweets only float around in a defined memory space and disappear once they are past the edge? Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

11. Not Kevin on March 5th, 2010 at 12:56 am

    Not sure – but I am not quite sure of the point of Twitter either! I think they (‘Tweets’ hang around a while though – quite tedious to keep clicking ‘more’ to get older ones but you can also try Googling for them. Eg: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=site:++site:twitter.com+twitter.com+dazzlewhite&ei=vVWQS62FLZTw0gTm4djsDA&sa=X&oi=nshc&resnum=1&ct=more-results&ved=0CA8Q2AQ (There are some there from early last year) Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

    • Strangely on March 5th, 2010 at 7:26 am

      Hmmm…. It’s just that the way that Ryan at EWA etc bandies around all the latest ‘offers’, they are essentially UN-TRACEABLE! There are no links in tweets just these quick-fire bursts of information. Therefore there are no back-link algorithms for search engines etc. This all means that these crap websites that we’ve been examining can fire up and close down even faster than before once the few people in the know are listening in on the ‘broadcast’. It’s a neat way to trap the curious and unwary as well which further enhances the expansion of these websites. This is why it’s important to make the companies that host and provide credit handling facilities, and the ones that provide the rest of the ‘vertically integrated web marketeer package’ are held accountable for their actions (e.g. PWW). Without them, then Ryan etc can tweet away into the ether without any web foundation…. Now we know that Ryan on his EWA website has already said that he’s intending to provide “the full package” to people for a fee that will include hosting etc. Once he’s done this, then he becomes another PWW and thus more visible…. Do you see the change and difference between the two things going on here? Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

12. Not Kevin on March 5th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    This is not Ryan Eagle but another affiliate network: http://www.findaffiliateoffers.com/NDustry-Clix-415.html Page looks familiar though. Note the ‘offer’ start date (31/12/09) ie: well AFTER Google announced a lawsuit against Pacific Webworks etc! The company running the offer is: NDustry Clix Inc. 1622 West Britton Rd. Oklahoma City, OK 73120 USA President: Mike Pacheco Office: 888-665-6165 ext.1 Cell: 405-618-3559 http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-networks-cpa-cpm-cpl-millionaire-makers/168236-eleadmedia-ndustryclix.html#post1731800 Like or Dislike: 2  0 Reply

    • Strangely on March 8th, 2010 at 7:33 am

      …familiar enough indeed, @Not Kevin! This is the thing. These templates are circulating everywhere – Google has a big job if it really wants to protect itself – but does it? Interestingly, (and this shows the already extant status of NDustry Clix Inc), I use OpenDNS to block lots of stuff from my home router and NDustry Clix Inc is already on the blacklist. I’d have to open the settings up a fair bit to be able to view the landing page. In essence, peer reviewing within OpenDNS has deemed ndustryclix.directtrack.com to be pants for internet users! One thinking occurred to me while looking at the screendump on the link you provided…. Currently we only know about the English versions of these scams (sorry, business opportunities). The two biggest internet markets by user numbers will soon be China and India. Now my knowledge of both Chinese and the various Indian languages is zero, so has anyone seen a, Get Rich with Baidu” …in Chinese, or a similar Hindi offering? You know, complete with the 100% satisfaction guaranteed splash etc! This could already be going on, and I’d never know. Anyone bi-or tri-lingual could make a real fortune in those countries. Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

13. Strangely on March 10th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Pacific WebWorks and their supporters seem confident that the bad old days of being sued by Google are over… Their share price is up to 11 cents. Their Google case has been settled (apparently). They’re up to their old tricks with templates, phones, unwarranted credit card charges etc – and it’s all done via a blistering mirage of shell websites and affiliated ‘businesses’. e.g. makemoneyonline.nanacity.com/make-money-online-with-google-money-tree/ auto-dated to today… Here’s a nice share price graph saying buy, buy, buy…. except the vertical scale is logarithmic to emphasise the small values: http://www.hotstockmarket.com/forums/showpost.php?s=e1fbc6154ce0671e01662ec555993a98&p=2386280&postcount=16 Another hot PWW topic, is something I’d previously missed from last December, 2009. It’s ANOTHER court case with PWW in the dock. This one seems to be a private matter, listed as: Nature of Suit: Torts – Property – Other Fraud Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Fraud Further information about Deanna Pelletier and her case against the PWW creeps is very hard to come by. These are the only links I can find: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-caedce/case_no-2:2009cv03503/case_id-201636/ http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-caedce/case_no-2:2009at02032/case_id-201623/ …so I wonder what’s going on with that one? Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply

14. Strangely on March 15th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Vogel in this comment on a huge posting devoted to the dubious business that is Monavie, make some fine comments about the close-knit community of F-rated scammers in UTAH, just based on ACAI alone! See http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/monavie-scam-was-my-wife-recruited-sell-snake-oil/#comment-172261 Also, see this post on the UTAH grouping: http://strangelyperfect.tv/5612/mybookface-google-utah-and-nevis-scamboys-united/ Like or Dislike: 0  0 Reply